Author Topic: Blood and Betrayal - DO NOT ENTER UNLESS YOU'VE READ THE BOOK!  (Read 46986 times)

riamachia

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Re: Blood and Betrayal - DO NOT ENTER UNLESS YOU'VE READ THE BOOK!
« Reply #315 on: September 11, 2012, 07:14:52 am »
all the girls back in elementary school used to use white-out as nail polish. No idea why, they just did.

I think we all did - no specific reason, just because it had the brush to apply it like nail polish.  And if you had clear, you could do a faux french manicure.  :P
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Cael

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Re: Blood and Betrayal - DO NOT ENTER UNLESS YOU'VE READ THE BOOK!
« Reply #316 on: September 11, 2012, 07:27:29 am »
It was/is a nervous habit but I did it when I was bored too. Now I just catch myself before I actually start chewing. Ah, growing up ;)
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Kitty

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Re: Blood and Betrayal - DO NOT ENTER UNLESS YOU'VE READ THE BOOK!
« Reply #317 on: September 11, 2012, 08:42:37 am »
which means you get to grow talons ;)
Stress /noun/ : The confusion created when the mind must override the body's basic desire to choke the ever-loving-shit out of someone who desperately deserves it.

Meera

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Re: Blood and Betrayal - DO NOT ENTER UNLESS YOU'VE READ THE BOOK!
« Reply #318 on: September 11, 2012, 08:44:09 am »
which means you get to grow talons ;)

Sounds like fun. :)
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Kitty

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Re: Blood and Betrayal - DO NOT ENTER UNLESS YOU'VE READ THE BOOK!
« Reply #319 on: September 11, 2012, 08:46:14 am »
which means you get to grow talons ;)

Sounds like fun. :)
then paint them red and pretend to be a Femme Fatale from an old 30's detective movie...




thats just me isn't it?
Stress /noun/ : The confusion created when the mind must override the body's basic desire to choke the ever-loving-shit out of someone who desperately deserves it.

Meera

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Re: Blood and Betrayal - DO NOT ENTER UNLESS YOU'VE READ THE BOOK!
« Reply #320 on: September 11, 2012, 08:47:46 am »
which means you get to grow talons ;)

Sounds like fun. :)
then paint them red and pretend to be a Femme Fatale from an old 30's detective movie...




thats just me isn't it?

I thought that sounded like cougar nails. :P
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kchighley

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Re: Blood and Betrayal - DO NOT ENTER UNLESS YOU'VE READ THE BOOK!
« Reply #321 on: September 11, 2012, 09:19:07 am »
It was/is a nervous habit but I did it when I was bored too. Now I just catch myself before I actually start chewing. Ah, growing up ;)

I bite mine, too.  Acrylic nails saved my fingers. I figured I would look stupid it I chewed my nails during business meetings so I started with acrylics/gel.   ???
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Re: Blood and Betrayal - DO NOT ENTER UNLESS YOU'VE READ THE BOOK!
« Reply #322 on: September 11, 2012, 09:23:49 am »
It was/is a nervous habit but I did it when I was bored too. Now I just catch myself before I actually start chewing. Ah, growing up ;)

I bite mine, too.  Acrylic nails saved my fingers. I figured I would look stupid it I chewed my nails during business meetings so I started with acrylics/gel.   ???

I filed mine sharp. Bleeding lips & tongue stopped the habit fast, though twisting a strand of hair remained. ;)
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Re: Blood and Betrayal - DO NOT ENTER UNLESS YOU'VE READ THE BOOK!
« Reply #323 on: September 11, 2012, 09:40:58 am »
My favourite part of being mostly bald is that my hair is the exact right length for hair pulling as a nervous habit. Oh, and taking my pulse.

Cael

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Re: Blood and Betrayal - DO NOT ENTER UNLESS YOU'VE READ THE BOOK!
« Reply #324 on: September 11, 2012, 10:23:22 am »
It was/is a nervous habit but I did it when I was bored too. Now I just catch myself before I actually start chewing. Ah, growing up ;)

I bite mine, too.  Acrylic nails saved my fingers. I figured I would look stupid it I chewed my nails during business meetings so I started with acrylics/gel.   ???

I thought about that but I do so much with my hands that fakes might not be worth it. Gardening, dog food making and fish tank maintenance would probably ruin even the shortest fakies ;)
Once you've made sure that the signal gets through
There's one final thing that I want you to do
Put me where I'll see stars, so that I can see you
And I'll soar like a leaf on the wind

Sarah

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Re: Blood and Betrayal - DO NOT ENTER UNLESS YOU'VE READ THE BOOK!
« Reply #325 on: September 12, 2012, 12:39:40 am »
I signed up just to reply to this thread! I may die of anticipation before the book is released.

Welcome to the forum. :)

Thanks! <3

Quote from: AKK
I second your points here.  The topic came up before in the thread "Sicarius repressed?". I'll link to my reply there, because there are five pages of banter before that. ;) http://the-emperors-edge.com/forum/index.php?topic=287.msg8618#msg8618 (whoever follows the link: there are spoilers as well!)
I believe they both lost a lot of their "protective layers" in this scene, Am by experiencing torture first hand, and Sic by revisiting / admitting parts of his past to her. Shared knowledge may lead to understanding, but at first it is an additional burden they have to learn to handle - at a time when both renegotiate their respective comfort zones with themselves and the other.

I went and read that thread literally five minutes after making my post. :) And then got sucked into reading every single other thread in the forums. Whoops.

But, yes, I'm totally with you on this. I think they're both scraped pretty raw emotionally at this point, and it's been a long, slow road for Sicarius, since he's been challenged to stretch himself socially/emotionally since the very beginning of the series. I think what's coming ahead for them is going to be set up by what Amaranthe suggests to Sicarius after he asks her if her pride would "object to [her] body being carried": "How about we walk side by side and lean on each other for support?"

Quote from: AKK
Yes, his own wishes, wants, personal space was seldom or never considered in his past. I do believe that this - not limited to the Marathi event - is one of the reasons he keeps his distance to the team. The behavior is more pronounced in the earlier books and the lines are getting blurred in the later books, for example, his doze in the lorry (EE4).

Ooh, yes. Knowing that others consider the impact of their actions on you is an important part of developing a sense of trust and knowing your position in a social unit, and if you are as poorly socialized as Sicarius is, then a way to handle that would be keeping your distance. I can't imagine that he had much free play time as a child with other children, which is when those sorts of interpersonal skills are developed.

It actually is pretty amazing that Sicarius functions are well as he does, because based on the glimpses we get of his childhood, he should only be a couple steps above a feral child in terms of functionality. It makes me so curious about his early childhood (say before age five or so), because those years are imperative in child development. I wonder if he was on schedule for developmental milestones, etc. and if he had a fairly normal toddlerhood with a nurse or surrogate parents. Kids without structure and nurturing support in those years tend to do very, very poorly during adolescence, and that tends to cascade into adulthood. He must have had a comparatively nurturing environment for toddlerhood, because otherwise his language skills would have been pretty severely impacted, and he is highly fluent, even if he doesn't choose to use his words that often.

Now I'm wondering what sort of early childhood development theories are active in Turgonian academia. Ugh, please not Freudian.

/tangent

Quote from: AKK
I do not think he considers things in terms of "being used" or "abused" given that history. His staying away, not keeping a known place to be, means safety from "things happening" (which at best complicate his life (as in adding felt responsibility, a.k.a. Sespian) or worse... well, his list for worse is longer than I want to type here).
I think this ties in a lot with what he'd consider safe: http://the-emperors-edge.com/forum/index.php?topic=260.0 :) (Yes, I shamelessly link to my posts, because I'm too lazy to reargue. ;) ).

Hmm, I hadn't thought of it in terms of if from Sicarius perspective. I suppose he had been forced to sort of set his Self (as opposed to his physical body) aside throughout his childhood, so being "used" as a tool was so much part of his concept of the world that anybody near him either wanted him for a purpose that was in their best interest, not his, or who were either actively trying to kill him or had the potential to. So, in a world where there is very little positive affirmation of your existence, it would make sense to keep your distance from others.

Quote from: AKK
Also, I can't believe no one has mentioned this:

Spoiler
How hilarious was it at the end of Chapter 4 when Sespian crawled out the window of the lorry to get into the bed? And Maldynado calls him an "odd lad" for doing it? Hee! Apart from all the Sicarius/Amaranthe scenes, I think that was my favorite in the entire book.

*g* Oh yes, this is one of those lovely bits that hint at "family resemblance", along with artistry and
Spoiler
an emperor-slayed eel
! :)

I also very much enjoyed every time Amaranthe responded to something someone said with a "huh". She has been doing it increasingly through the series, and it tickles me very time she does.
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Mana

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Re: Blood and Betrayal - DO NOT ENTER UNLESS YOU'VE READ THE BOOK!
« Reply #326 on: September 12, 2012, 05:41:28 am »
Quote
It actually is pretty amazing that Sicarius functions are well as he does, because based on the glimpses we get of his childhood, he should only be a couple steps above a feral child in terms of functionality. It makes me so curious about his early childhood (say before age five or so), because those years are imperative in child development. I wonder if he was on schedule for developmental milestones, etc. and if he had a fairly normal toddlerhood with a nurse or surrogate parents. Kids without structure and nurturing support in those years tend to do very, very poorly during adolescence, and that tends to cascade into adulthood. He must have had a comparatively nurturing environment for toddlerhood, because otherwise his language skills would have been pretty severely impacted, and he is highly fluent, even if he doesn't choose to use his words that often.

I've spent a lot of time thinking about his training, I agree that he had to have some positive interaction as a kid or he'd be sadistic. I don't think it lasted till he was 5 though cause then he'd remember it and he has said many times no one went out of their way to be nice.
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AKK

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Re: Blood and Betrayal - DO NOT ENTER UNLESS YOU'VE READ THE BOOK!
« Reply #327 on: September 12, 2012, 06:21:36 am »
But, yes, I'm totally with you on this. I think they're both scraped pretty raw emotionally at this point, and it's been a long, slow road for Sicarius, since he's been challenged to stretch himself socially/emotionally since the very beginning of the series. I think what's coming ahead for them is going to be set up by what Amaranthe suggests to Sicarius after he asks her if her pride would "object to [her] body being carried": "How about we walk side by side and lean on each other for support?"

that's a very good way to describe their dynamics. :)
Personally, I wonder if and if, how Amaranthe's knowledge about what he's going up against to stay with her and the group will affect her treatment of him. She's been interested - even against her better judgment (ice house...) - in him from the very beginning and she clearly "invests" in him, even before she had an idea about that.

Quote from: AKK
Yes, his own wishes, wants, personal space was seldom or never considered in his past. I do believe that this - not limited to the Marathi event - is one of the reasons he keeps his distance to the team. The behavior is more pronounced in the earlier books and the lines are getting blurred in the later books, for example, his doze in the lorry (EE4).

Ooh, yes. Knowing that others consider the impact of their actions on you is an important part of developing a sense of trust and knowing your position in a social unit, and if you are as poorly socialized as Sicarius is, then a way to handle that would be keeping your distance. I can't imagine that he had much free play time as a child with other children, which is when those sorts of interpersonal skills are developed.

It actually is pretty amazing that Sicarius functions are well as he does, because based on the glimpses we get of his childhood, he should only be a couple steps above a feral child in terms of functionality. It makes me so curious about his early childhood (say before age five or so), because those years are imperative in child development. I wonder if he was on schedule for developmental milestones, etc. and if he had a fairly normal toddlerhood with a nurse or surrogate parents. Kids without structure and nurturing support in those years tend to do very, very poorly during adolescence, and that tends to cascade into adulthood. He must have had a comparatively nurturing environment for toddlerhood, because otherwise his language skills would have been pretty severely impacted, and he is highly fluent, even if he doesn't choose to use his words that often.

Now I'm wondering what sort of early childhood development theories are active in Turgonian academia. Ugh, please not Freudian.

/tangent

Actually, basic socialization (language, response, the formative earliest years, I suppose were pretty normal, likely involving nurses and young child educators. Once he passed the levels of perceptiveness, motoric skills, and understanding (I'd say around late kindergarten, early preschool, so ~4 maybe) it would have been that "training" got started, intensifying over time. Mana wrote a fanfic dealing with that, and while I don't support every detail of it, the steps of his younger years are very close to what I'd consider logical in that context.
If you're interested, you can find Mana's Little Sicarius here: http://the-emperors-edge.com/forum/index.php?topic=250.0
(and here's my story Soot-free that's referenced in it http://the-emperors-edge.com/forum/index.php?topic=27.0 (consider this shameless self-promotion!))

Regarding functioning in society and groups...
From personal experience, you can learn social interaction, appropriate interaction later on much like vocabulary as long as the basic socialization took place, so that you function well with individual persons whom you can give enough attention to "figure things out" in a timely fashion. The problems start when it comes to groups.  Groups, even large groups like school classes, are okay as long as they're focused on a problem - a class lecture, a specific task or exercise - because then there's an external directive, but unfocused groups are a problem. If you lack this early group experience, you never feel well or relaxed in groups larger than 3 - or maybe 4 people (including yourself), because you consider people individually and automatically try to keep them in focus / attention to read and react as appropriate. But you don't function as part of the group, you don't go "with the flow", and once there are too many individuals all at once...
Time with one or two trusted people is nice, having tea with four or five persons chatting over cake is already stressful, a lively party is the definite opposite of fun (and you don't have to give it to feel that way; the situation is just too complex to be actively analyzed, so you search your quite corner, preferably behind a potted palm or out the back door). And the behavior is independent of whether or not you're a natural introvert.

So I wonder less about the level of functioning Sic shows towards Amaranthe, or (sub-sections) of the group, but more about how far he can/will go for her and ultimately his own benefit. He is not used to avoid discomfort, but he is used to avoid situations he cannot control enough to maintain personal safety, so there is a contradiction requiring regular reassessment whenever he runs into it.

(I think I'll stay away from childhood theories... I'm weird enough as I am. ;) ).

I also very much enjoyed every time Amaranthe responded to something someone said with a "huh". She has been doing it increasingly through the series, and it tickles me very time she does.

Huh.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2012, 06:25:39 am by AKK »
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Sara M.

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Re: Blood and Betrayal - DO NOT ENTER UNLESS YOU'VE READ THE BOOK!
« Reply #328 on: September 12, 2012, 10:36:20 am »
Hmm, I hadn't thought of it in terms of if from Sicarius perspective. I suppose he had been forced to sort of set his Self (as opposed to his physical body) aside throughout his childhood, so being "used" as a tool was so much part of his concept of the world that anybody near him either wanted him for a purpose that was in their best interest, not his, or who were either actively trying to kill him or had the potential to. So, in a world where there is very little positive affirmation of your existence, it would make sense to keep your distance from others.

In book 1, Sicarius tells Amaranthe: "Whether realized or not, everyone you talk to is trying to use you to further his own interests. You must always be ready to protect yourself." and "Friendship is as selfish as any other relationship, perhaps more so because it masquerades as something noble. I am more comfortable with those who approach me with blades drawn."

Which supports both your statement and ...

Regarding functioning in society and groups...
From personal experience, you can learn social interaction, appropriate interaction later on much like vocabulary as long as the basic socialization took place, so that you function well with individual persons whom you can give enough attention to "figure things out" in a timely fashion. The problems start when it comes to groups.  Groups, even large groups like school classes, are okay as long as they're focused on a problem - a class lecture, a specific task or exercise - because then there's an external directive, but unfocused groups are a problem. If you lack this early group experience, you never feel well or relaxed in groups larger than 3 - or maybe 4 people (including yourself), because you consider people individually and automatically try to keep them in focus / attention to read and react as appropriate. But you don't function as part of the group, you don't go "with the flow", and once there are too many individuals all at once...
Time with one or two trusted people is nice, having tea with four or five persons chatting over cake is already stressful, a lively party is the definite opposite of fun (and you don't have to give it to feel that way; the situation is just too complex to be actively analyzed, so you search your quite corner, preferably behind a potted palm or out the back door). And the behavior is independent of whether or not you're a natural introvert.

So I wonder less about the level of functioning Sic shows towards Amaranthe, or (sub-sections) of the group, but more about how far he can/will go for her and ultimately his own benefit. He is not used to avoid discomfort, but he is used to avoid situations he cannot control enough to maintain personal safety, so there is a contradiction requiring regular reassessment whenever he runs into it.

(I think I'll stay away from childhood theories... I'm weird enough as I am. ;) ).

I read one of your earlier posts on that, AKK, and I think it's spot on. It fits so well with how little desire Sicarius has to be part of a group social environment while allowing him to still function smoothly as a member when they're on a mission.