Author Topic: If you've read EE5 -- Pike's torture and Sicarius  (Read 6912 times)

Sara M.

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If you've read EE5 -- Pike's torture and Sicarius
« on: August 25, 2012, 06:33:49 pm »
I'm a bit behind the eARC crowd. But, anyway ... the response to Mana's EE5 fanfic made me wonder how knowledge of what Sicarius's training was has changed the views of him as a character. We know now that he was tortured, literally, for years to get him to be the ultimate killing machine. (And major kudos to Lindsay for being willing to go as far as rape in his training. That was intense. And heartbreaking. Not that the rest wasn't ...)

So, does that history make it more excusable for him to treat murder so casually?

My thoughts: That little bit of background goes a long way toward illustrating how far he's come since meeting Amaranthe. A childhood like that would leave a person with very little respect for human life or for the kindness of others. I don't think it excuses his actions, but it goes a long way toward explaining them. Can you ever overcome that kind of prolonged conditioning? I don't know. Certainly a year would not be enough to erase that entirely.

Moondreamer

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Re: If you've read EE5 -- Pike's torture and Sicarius
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2012, 06:40:25 pm »
There were many clues about those revelations in the other books, so I wasn't completely surprised to learn how far his trainers/torturers went with him. It's heartbreaking. Sicarius is a deeply scared human being (well, a book character, but w/e), and it's a miracle Hollow and Cie didn't break his spirit completely.  That he still is able of human emotion is admirable in my book.


Excuse might not be the word I'd use, but explain, certainly. Why would he even treat human life as important seeing the way HE was treated as a human. Maybe it's only the fact that he watched his own son grow, close but unreachable, that allowed him to keep feeling anything but numbness and hatred... who knows.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2012, 07:05:00 pm by Moondreamer »
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sweartoad

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Re: If you've read EE5 -- Pike's torture and Sicarius
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2012, 06:49:13 pm »
On the other hand Sicarius is extremely pragmatic - he's said on numerous occasions that what happened in the past can't matter any more and that you can only go forward. That's probably been a very good coping mechanism for whatever he's been through. He knows that the only thing he can influence is the future so that's the only thing he concerns himself with.

I think frankly the biggest obstacle is him actually becoming someone that Amaranthe can stay with for the long term. She loved him and she wants to be with him, but whether she actually can is another matter. He's hot, yeah, and he saves her life and "appreciates" her, but he definitely needs to do some growing.

Moondreamer

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Re: If you've read EE5 -- Pike's torture and Sicarius
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2012, 06:52:31 pm »
The hardest part of all weill be when eveything will be over with. Right now, they have a goal, are on the run, etc. But, Sicarius has never known what a normal life is. What will he do with his caring for Am once everyone has settled down? Will he even be able to shift gear? Saving your girl's likfe is all well and all, but that's not the only thing that counts in a relationship...
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maggiej117

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Re: If you've read EE5 -- Pike's torture and Sicarius
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2012, 07:03:08 pm »
The hardest part of all weill be when eveything will be over with. Right now, they have a goal, are on the run, etc. But, Sicarius has never known what a normal life is. What will he do with his caring for Am once everyone has settled down? Will he even be able to shift gear? Saving your girl's likfe is all well and all, but that's not the only thing that counts in a relationship...

I've been contemplating this a lot but from Amaranthe's end of things... Relationships always go so well in books, but, in this series especially, I can just imagine the 'now what' at the end. I think it would be hard for him to know what to do if he's not killing.

Cael

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Re: If you've read EE5 -- Pike's torture and Sicarius
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2012, 07:04:39 pm »
I've been wondering about that too. Sicarius has always been a soldier (read: assassin) with a goal. He had someone giving him orders up until Sespian fired him, then he had the goal of keeping Sespian safe. Am comes along and just gives him a more focused goal. But what about when all that's over?

Someone could point out that even with a new government that Sespian may or may not be in charge of, they might all still be targeted by the remnants of Forge. But eventually it will all settle down and they'll have to lead relatively normal lives. I imagine Sic will have trouble adjusting much like a long-term soldier after being discharged from the military or a prisoner released from jail. 'Normal' just isn't for him.
Once you've made sure that the signal gets through
There's one final thing that I want you to do
Put me where I'll see stars, so that I can see you
And I'll soar like a leaf on the wind

Sara M.

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Re: If you've read EE5 -- Pike's torture and Sicarius
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2012, 07:13:32 pm »
The hardest part of all weill be when eveything will be over with. Right now, they have a goal, are on the run, etc. But, Sicarius has never known what a normal life is. What will he do with his caring for Am once everyone has settled down? Will he even be able to shift gear? Saving your girl's likfe is all well and all, but that's not the only thing that counts in a relationship...

Right -- can he live a life where he doesn't view everyone around him as a threat or a potential threat? If he can't, it would be very hard for someone as social as Amaranthe to deal with long term.

I wonder if that's when all the hell he's gone through would catch up with him. Not having a goal (Sespian) or a threat (Forge) to keep him focused and all.

Meera

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Re: If you've read EE5 -- Pike's torture and Sicarius
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2012, 07:17:25 pm »
The hardest part of all weill be when eveything will be over with. Right now, they have a goal, are on the run, etc. But, Sicarius has never known what a normal life is. What will he do with his caring for Am once everyone has settled down? Will he even be able to shift gear? Saving your girl's likfe is all well and all, but that's not the only thing that counts in a relationship...

Right -- can he live a life where he doesn't view everyone around him as a threat or a potential threat? If he can't, it would be very hard for someone as social as Amaranthe to deal with long term.

I wonder if that's when all the hell he's gone through would catch up with him. Not having a goal (Sespian) or a threat (Forge) to keep him focused and all.

I think he'll always be a bit paranoid, and protective over Sespian; he's too set in his ways not too. I don't know how that will translate to a relationship with Amaranthe though.
"All right, girl, we are not going to be attracted to the amoral assassin."

adamai

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Re: If you've read EE5 -- Pike's torture and Sicarius
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2012, 07:22:06 pm »
The hardest part of all weill be when eveything will be over with. Right now, they have a goal, are on the run, etc. But, Sicarius has never known what a normal life is. What will he do with his caring for Am once everyone has settled down? Will he even be able to shift gear? Saving your girl's likfe is all well and all, but that's not the only thing that counts in a relationship...

Right -- can he live a life where he doesn't view everyone around him as a threat or a potential threat? If he can't, it would be very hard for someone as social as Amaranthe to deal with long term.

I wonder if that's when all the hell he's gone through would catch up with him. Not having a goal (Sespian) or a threat (Forge) to keep him focused and all.

Also he's been an assassin for more than 20 years. I can't even imagine how many people he's killed. Even if he's exonerated there will always be people who want revenge for what he's done to them or their loved ones. And as someone mentioned on another thread, he's getting old and he won't be as deadly he is now in 5-10 years, which will encourage those people. So unless they move to somewhere new, I don't see them living peacefully.

Meera

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Re: If you've read EE5 -- Pike's torture and Sicarius
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2012, 07:25:18 pm »
The hardest part of all weill be when eveything will be over with. Right now, they have a goal, are on the run, etc. But, Sicarius has never known what a normal life is. What will he do with his caring for Am once everyone has settled down? Will he even be able to shift gear? Saving your girl's likfe is all well and all, but that's not the only thing that counts in a relationship...

Right -- can he live a life where he doesn't view everyone around him as a threat or a potential threat? If he can't, it would be very hard for someone as social as Amaranthe to deal with long term.

I wonder if that's when all the hell he's gone through would catch up with him. Not having a goal (Sespian) or a threat (Forge) to keep him focused and all.

Also he's been an assassin for more than 20 years. I can't even imagine how many people he's killed. Even if he's exonerated there will always be people who want revenge for what he's done to them or their loved ones. And as someone mentioned on another thread, he's getting old and he won't be as deadly he is now in 5-10 years, which will encourage those people. So unless they move to somewhere new, I don't see them living peacefully.

You're right I didn't even think about that. Although Amaranthe has said more than once (I think) that she'd like to take him to the beach or somewhere relaxing. Or maybe they can be wherever Starcrest and Tikaya have been hiding all these years.  :)

What I want to know is how shortened Sespian's life is.
"All right, girl, we are not going to be attracted to the amoral assassin."

Moondreamer

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Re: If you've read EE5 -- Pike's torture and Sicarius
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2012, 07:27:49 pm »
The hardest part of all weill be when eveything will be over with. Right now, they have a goal, are on the run, etc. But, Sicarius has never known what a normal life is. What will he do with his caring for Am once everyone has settled down? Will he even be able to shift gear? Saving your girl's likfe is all well and all, but that's not the only thing that counts in a relationship...

Right -- can he live a life where he doesn't view everyone around him as a threat or a potential threat? If he can't, it would be very hard for someone as social as Amaranthe to deal with long term.

I wonder if that's when all the hell he's gone through would catch up with him. Not having a goal (Sespian) or a threat (Forge) to keep him focused and all.

Also he's been an assassin for more than 20 years. I can't even imagine how many people he's killed. Even if he's exonerated there will always be people who want revenge for what he's done to them or their loved ones. And as someone mentioned on another thread, he's getting old and he won't be as deadly he is now in 5-10 years, which will encourage those people. So unless they move to somewhere new, I don't see them living peacefully.

You're right I didn't even think about that. Although Amaranthe has said more than once (I think) that she'd like to take him to the beach or somewhere relaxing. Or maybe they can be wherever Starcrest and Tikaya have been hiding all these years.  :)

What I want to know is how shortened Sespian's life is.

For Sespian, I would guess his life will be shortened in the sense that his health probably won't be very good. The drug  will have done a number on his constitution...
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adamai

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Re: If you've read EE5 -- Pike's torture and Sicarius
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2012, 07:52:09 pm »
On Pike's torture to Sicarius, after reading those chapters my opinion of Sicarius has changed a lot. I didn't think a lot about it, but I'm wondering what kept him going until that sense of duty was drilled into him. Only survival instinct? How was he not suicidal?? He is not vengeful or anything either.

Also
Spoiler
before they met in Chapter 13, I was very skeptical about a lasting relationship with Amaranthe. I wasn't expecting his confessions at all.

Moondreamer

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Re: If you've read EE5 -- Pike's torture and Sicarius
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2012, 07:58:55 pm »
On Pike's torture to Sicarius, after reading those chapters my opinion of Sicarius has changed a lot. I didn't think a lot about it, but I'm wondering what kept him going until that sense of duty was drilled into him. Only survival instinct? How was he not suicidal?? He is not vengeful or anything either.

Also
Spoiler
before they met in Chapter 13, I was very skeptical about a lasting relationship with Amaranthe. I wasn't expecting his confessions at all.


Sicarius has some unseen depth to his character that we've only now started to see I think. In the first book or two, he was mostly stoic, dark and bad assassin. He was mysterious and sexy, but pretty much unidimensional. Now, he's getting to be very interresting to see evolve, at elast in my opinion... I'm so looking forwar to see his POV
« Last Edit: August 25, 2012, 08:04:07 pm by Moondreamer »
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Meera

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Re: If you've read EE5 -- Pike's torture and Sicarius
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2012, 08:02:38 pm »
On Pike's torture to Sicarius, after reading those chapters my opinion of Sicarius has changed a lot. I didn't think a lot about it, but I'm wondering what kept him going until that sense of duty was drilled into him. Only survival instinct? How was he not suicidal?? He is not vengeful or anything either.

Also
Spoiler
before they met in Chapter 13, I was very skeptical about a lasting relationship with Amaranthe. I wasn't expecting his confessions at all.

I think he was, in the beginning. He was probably kept under watch and locked up so he couldn't hurt himself. Or maybe it didn't occur to him. He grew up with this; he's never known anything else, and he was probably very isolated. I wondered about that too, though, especially the being vengeful part, and I think it shows a lot of wisdom and maturity on his part. At what point did he decide that the past was the past, and that he should move forward? It probably had a lot to do with Sespian, but I don't think I'd be able to put that behind me.
"All right, girl, we are not going to be attracted to the amoral assassin."

Meera

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Re: If you've read EE5 -- Pike's torture and Sicarius
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2012, 08:05:05 pm »
On Pike's torture to Sicarius, after reading those chapters my opinion of Sicarius has changed a lot. I didn't think a lot about it, but I'm wondering what kept him going until that sense of duty was drilled into him. Only survival instinct? How was he not suicidal?? He is not vengeful or anything either.

Also
Spoiler
before they met in Chapter 13, I was very skeptical about a lasting relationship with Amaranthe. I wasn't expecting his confessions at all.


Sicarius has some unseen depth to his character that we've only now started to see I think. In the first book or two, he was mostly stoic, dark and bad assassin. He was mysterious and sexy, but pretty much unidimensional. Now, he's getting to be very interresting to see evolve, at elast in my opinion... I'm so looking forwar to see POV

Can't WAIT for SPOV, even if it's a bit dark.
"All right, girl, we are not going to be attracted to the amoral assassin."