Author Topic: Sicarius sense of security (or why I don't believe in "secret bunkers")  (Read 14187 times)

AKK

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Re: Sicarius sense of security (or why I don't believe in "secret bunkers")
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2012, 08:23:43 am »
Too long to quote, but I still wanted to add my grain of salt here :
 
First of all, I really do like your first point AKK. The thought of a bunker also always kinda bothered me, but I hadn't really put it into words until you started that thread. I do agree with you on how this probably wouldn't be his way. I was also thinking of the sheer praticality of it. Until 5-6 years ago, Sic lived at the Barracks when he wasn't sent on a mission. His whole days probably were regimented by this job, and I don't see him having the kind of time or inclination to find himself some other place to live when he would never be there himself. After he got kicked out, we know he's travelled quite a bit (protecting Sespian, we learn later). Sure, he most probably found places to live (after all, when we meet him, he's clean and doesn't have the look of a homeless person, so he had to have a least some place to sleep inside, but it might have been as simple as an empty building), but I don't see him ever staying at one place long. Safety for him isn't a place, because he has to know that no one place can be totally secure. Why take the time to fortify it when he can stay on the move instead. I just don't see it. He has no reason to want to stay in a single place.

Besides, fortification is rather inefficient against a mobile opponent. There are more tactical examples proving that in WW-I and -II alone than I care to remember.
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Moondreamer

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Re: Sicarius sense of security (or why I don't believe in "secret bunkers")
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2012, 08:25:38 am »
Too long to quote, but I still wanted to add my grain of salt here :
 
First of all, I really do like your first point AKK. The thought of a bunker also always kinda bothered me, but I hadn't really put it into words until you started that thread. I do agree with you on how this probably wouldn't be his way. I was also thinking of the sheer praticality of it. Until 5-6 years ago, Sic lived at the Barracks when he wasn't sent on a mission. His whole days probably were regimented by this job, and I don't see him having the kind of time or inclination to find himself some other place to live when he would never be there himself. After he got kicked out, we know he's travelled quite a bit (protecting Sespian, we learn later). Sure, he most probably found places to live (after all, when we meet him, he's clean and doesn't have the look of a homeless person, so he had to have a least some place to sleep inside, but it might have been as simple as an empty building), but I don't see him ever staying at one place long. Safety for him isn't a place, because he has to know that no one place can be totally secure. Why take the time to fortify it when he can stay on the move instead. I just don't see it. He has no reason to want to stay in a single place.

Besides, fortification is rather inefficient against a mobile opponent. There are more tactical examples proving that in WW-I and -II alone than I care to remember.

Very good point.
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Mana

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Re: Sicarius sense of security (or why I don't believe in "secret bunkers")
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2012, 08:25:43 am »
Actually, I prefer reading about characters I learn about by their actions rather than their thoughts. I prefer more distance instead being in the characters' heads 24/7. So I basically find the descriptions "refreshing", for lack of a better word. That's why I currently have mixed feelings about book 6. I absolutely, positively, YesYesYes want to know what happens and how everything concludes, but I'm wary about a probable loss of the distant perspective in it. We'll see, I guess. :)

Yes, exactly.  I tried to say this in another thread, and it didn't come across half as well as this.  And, thank you, I am glad I'm not the only one!

I think another part of his draw is the fact we are waiting to see the venerability that is there, lurking.  I'm not sure how successfully I have conveyed it in any of my fiction but I've tried to show that he doesn't have all the answers, even within what his training says is the answer. To show that he needed guidance and answers as a kid, to show he was a cocky arrogant teenager, to show that having a kid was something that touched him more than any 15 year old would ever be touched, and as an adult he is brimming with just as many insecurities as we all have, the insecurities just aren't related to death or killing.

venerability? Are you sure that's the word you mean?

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Yeah, I was going for vulnerability. Stupid early morning...
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Kitty

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Re: Sicarius sense of security (or why I don't believe in "secret bunkers")
« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2012, 08:30:42 am »
Am not sure they need tosplit, after all we'll be getting the POV of two very different characters on the same situation.  it'll be fun to see how they both view each moment.

As to the bunker: could be fun dependant on the bunker and what its used for...;)

Other than that i can't see Sic really needing a safe place per se when he would probably just whisk her off without warning and shack up in a little log cabin somewhere in the mountains
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AKK

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Re: Sicarius sense of security (or why I don't believe in "secret bunkers")
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2012, 08:39:45 am »
Actually, I prefer reading about characters I learn about by their actions rather than their thoughts. I prefer more distance instead being in the characters' heads 24/7. So I basically find the descriptions "refreshing", for lack of a better word. That's why I currently have mixed feelings about book 6. I absolutely, positively, YesYesYes want to know what happens and how everything concludes, but I'm wary about a probable loss of the distant perspective in it. We'll see, I guess. :)

Yes, exactly.  I tried to say this in another thread, and it didn't come across half as well as this.  And, thank you, I am glad I'm not the only one!

I think another part of his draw is the fact we are waiting to see the venerability that is there, lurking.  I'm not sure how successfully I have conveyed it in any of my fiction but I've tried to show that he doesn't have all the answers, even within what his training says is the answer. To show that he needed guidance and answers as a kid, to show he was a cocky arrogant teenager, to show that having a kid was something that touched him more than any 15 year old would ever be touched, and as an adult he is brimming with just as many insecurities as we all have, the insecurities just aren't related to death or killing.

venerability? Are you sure that's the word you mean?

Yeah, I was going for vulnerability. Stupid early morning...

:) I wasn't sure about the correct alternative, so I couldn't answer.

I think his major vulnerability is in dealing with people in a non-professional way. One on one, or in an organized, goal-oriented group works well. If the group is more chaotic, less focused on a defined task, it becomes a too complex problem to figure out within acceptable reaction times.

It maybe comparable to somebody who'd been forced to avoid groups and group playing as a child (in case of illness, for example). If you missed out on it in the first ten years or something, you never really get the knack of it later. You can mimick the acceptable behavior, but it's pure, exhausting work and no fun.
With that background you enjoy company of one (two at the most) persons in a room, but four or five become stress. You handle classes well, but a party is close to hell (even if you don't give it) and a veritable nightmare anyway. Because the more people there are, the more you have to consider to "get it right".

But this is pure speculation, more based on your fanfic than what's in the canon so far: that he was separated from others and confronted usually with groups, who are either his enemies (coming after him for testing) or goal-oriented organized (military). :)
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Aamartin

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Re: Sicarius sense of security (or why I don't believe in "secret bunkers")
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2012, 08:57:27 am »
I am, as you've seen, a fan of the idea of a bunker or safe house for Sicarius. Although, for me, it is in part allegorical. The bunker represents a feeling complete security. Something that I would think would be both enormously attractive to Sic and very hard for him to embrace. It's a question of whether Sic really can totally relax and really can totally and completely experience his feeling for Amaranthe.

I would also suggest that the bunker serves another purpose in the fanfics: humor. There's something very funny about Sic with a batcave. I think the best of LB's work merges the serious with the hilarious in unexpected ways. Many of the fanfics posted here try to emulate that. Often with what I find to be very satisfying results.
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AKK

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Re: Sicarius sense of security (or why I don't believe in "secret bunkers")
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2012, 09:04:50 am »
I am, as you've seen, a fan of the idea of a bunker or safe house for Sicarius. Although, for me, it is in part allegorical. The bunker represents a feeling complete security. Something that I would think would be both enormously attractive to Sic and very hard for him to embrace. It's a question of whether Sic really can totally relax and really can totally and completely experience his feeling for Amaranthe.

Whereas I think that complete security in this context makes no sense for his character, and achieving it with a safe house even less. Considering his background and habits, I'd believe him more on the edge in one of those than less.
But then, I find the idea of a feeling excluding everything else rather unappealing in general. I tend to value things I had to carve out of life more than those just swallowing me whole, but tastes differ. :)

Quote
I would also suggest that the bunker serves another purpose in the fanfics: humor. There's something very funny about Sic with a batcave. I think the best of LB's work merges the serious with the hilarious in unexpected ways. Many of the fanfics posted here try to emulate that. Often with what I find to be very satisfying results.

Guess, I just don't find bunkers funny. All these imagined safe places feel rather confining. ;)
But then, I also believe the batcave & co. completely ridiculous (and not in a funny way). *shrugs*
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K2N2

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Re: Sicarius sense of security (or why I don't believe in "secret bunkers")
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2012, 10:46:56 am »
I've never been a "secret lair" fan myself.  Sicarius doesn't seem to be the type to tie himself down to one location.  He seems to be more on the line of a Roman legionnaire...able to "fort up" where ever he happens to be. 

As for amorous activities, I agree that the distraction would be overwhelming.  However, I suspect with his level of body awareness he'd have a good idea how fast it would take him to recover his alertness and adjust accordingly.  Thus he'd set up his fortifications/traps in such a manner so that he'd have sufficient time to recover his facilities enough to take care of the intrusion.  Remember we've had adequate demonstration that the man is formidable even when nude!

Moondreamer

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Re: Sicarius sense of security (or why I don't believe in "secret bunkers")
« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2012, 10:49:50 am »
I've never been a "secret lair" fan myself.  Sicarius doesn't seem to be the type to tie himself down to one location.  He seems to be more on the line of a Roman legionnaire...able to "fort up" where ever he happens to be. 

As for amorous activities, I agree that the distraction would be overwhelming.  However, I suspect with his level of body awareness he'd have a good idea how fast it would take him to recover his alertness and adjust accordingly.  Thus he'd set up his fortifications/traps in such a manner so that he'd have sufficient time to recover his facilities enough to take care of the intrusion.  Remember we've had adequate demonstration that the man is formidable even when nude!

Nude AND drugged out of his mind... The man is formidable, and that's how we like him :P
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Sara M.

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Re: Sicarius sense of security (or why I don't believe in "secret bunkers")
« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2012, 11:03:00 am »
So, for those of you who don't like the idea of a safe house: How do you envision Sicarius and Amaranthe ten years down the line? Living in the imperial complex? In a house in the middle of nowhere? In a string of hideouts? (Or not together, I suppose.)

Cael

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Re: Sicarius sense of security (or why I don't believe in "secret bunkers")
« Reply #25 on: August 29, 2012, 11:11:28 am »
Airship, totally. Like the end of Howl's Moving Castle ;)

Nah, I'd imagine a simple, if kinda upscale house near the Barracks. Or Sic might prefer to be in the Barracks so he could keep an eye on Sespian. The place is huge and I imagine there's some out of the way quarters they could commandeer.
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riamachia

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Re: Sicarius sense of security (or why I don't believe in "secret bunkers")
« Reply #26 on: August 29, 2012, 12:09:09 pm »
I would imagine their own private property, with an unlisted address.  Amaranthe doesn't seem like she was ever the ~borrow a cup of sugar~ type of neighbor anyway, so they'd just be the neighbors nobody really knows.  Which is honestly how most of our neighbors are.
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moldynotgo

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Re: Sicarius sense of security (or why I don't believe in "secret bunkers")
« Reply #27 on: August 29, 2012, 12:09:46 pm »
I've never been a "secret lair" fan myself.  Sicarius doesn't seem to be the type to tie himself down to one location.  He seems to be more on the line of a Roman legionnaire...able to "fort up" where ever he happens to be. 

As for amorous activities, I agree that the distraction would be overwhelming.  However, I suspect with his level of body awareness he'd have a good idea how fast it would take him to recover his alertness and adjust accordingly.  Thus he'd set up his fortifications/traps in such a manner so that he'd have sufficient time to recover his facilities enough to take care of the intrusion.  Remember we've had adequate demonstration that the man is formidable even when nude!

See, this goes with what I tried to say before: I think a forum-prevalent ROMANTICIZED  view of Sicarius wants to have the Am/Sic hay rolling be so intense he would not be able to easily, as you say, "recover his alertness."

We want fireworks! Stars! Partial unconsciousness in a romantic not necropheliac way! And we want it now! QED, Bunker o'Love.



I never said the Sicarius Bunker (TM) was LIKELY... but I like the idea of one very much.

K2N2

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Re: Sicarius sense of security (or why I don't believe in "secret bunkers")
« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2012, 12:25:23 pm »
We want fireworks! Stars!

Working on it. 

Kitty

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Re: Sicarius sense of security (or why I don't believe in "secret bunkers")
« Reply #29 on: August 29, 2012, 12:41:51 pm »
We want fireworks! Stars! Partial unconsciousness in a romantic not necropheliac way! And we want it now! QED, Bunker o'Love.

Bunker o' Love?!  classic.  Though i suspect Sicarius' would probably have some rather worrying...fittings
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