Author Topic: Sicarius Big Moment O Backslide in EE5  (Read 6384 times)

Cael

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Sicarius Big Moment O Backslide in EE5
« on: September 11, 2012, 12:12:16 pm »
Ok, I can't be the only one puzzled/concerned by Sic's obvious moment of backsliding near the end of EE5, when the team is spying on the leaders an he's all 'let's go murder them all and it'll stop now' and then when the team is leaving he goes and tries to kill them despite Am's obviously being against it. I mean, wasn't there just a scene not a few chapters back where he was all concerned she wouldnt like him anymore after him going bonkers and killing all those Forge people? And she brings up some great points about it most likely being an international organization...
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kchighley

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Re: Sicarius Big Moment O Backslide in EE5
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2012, 12:38:28 pm »
He did backslide, but I think Sespian does that to him. They were talking about killing his son, and I think he kind of lost all direction at that point. I'm interested to see how he behaves now that Sespian knows, and clearly agrees w/ Am. But as pragmatic as he is, he's acted very impulsively when there's an immediate threat to Sespian.
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Sara M.

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Re: Sicarius Big Moment O Backslide in EE5
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2012, 12:58:06 pm »
That surprised me, especially since both Amaranthe and Sespian explicitly told him not to kill anyone. He may have been hoping to provide a distraction that would allow the team to escape. If that's the case, then I wouldn't consider that backsliding, per se. More a failure to think beyond his usual methods.

Kitty

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Re: Sicarius Big Moment O Backslide in EE5
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2012, 01:26:07 pm »
then add to that the fact Am then unintentionally collapses the roof and drowns everyone.
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Moondreamer

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Re: Sicarius Big Moment O Backslide in EE5
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2012, 01:36:22 pm »
When I read that part, I thought it was a case of desperation. Sespian was in mortal danger by this huge organization that even knew the truth about his birth. That had already badly hurt Amaranthe, might still find them in their lair, and all around, things looked gloom. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that, in his mind at least, Sicarius made the calculation that he prefered for Sespian and Amaranthe to hate him but have them be safe than to keep the Forge members alive with all the htreat they represent.
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Lysana

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Re: Sicarius Big Moment O Backslide in EE5
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2012, 02:10:23 pm »
When I read that part, I thought it was a case of desperation. Sespian was in mortal danger by this huge organization that even knew the truth about his birth. That had already badly hurt Amaranthe, might still find them in their lair, and all around, things looked gloom. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that, in his mind at least, Sicarius made the calculation that he prefered for Sespian and Amaranthe to hate him but have them be safe than to keep the Forge members alive with all the htreat they represent.

I saw it like this, too.

Aamartin

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Re: Sicarius Big Moment O Backslide in EE5
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2012, 02:23:18 pm »
At that point, he was still hoping to keep Sespian from finding out about 'the big secret', or at least delay him finding out until he felt less revulsion for Sicarius. I think that's more the breaking, doing crazy stuff, thing for Sic. Not so much Sespian in danger (which has also caused him to behave irrationally, sure) but Sespian finding out the secret in a way that would make it impossible for Sic to keep believing that somehow, sometime in the future they could have some kind of relationship. This was Am's insight about it, and her reason for telling Sespian: she realized that Sic would always want to wait for some mythical better time to tell him.
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moldynotgo

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Re: Sicarius Big Moment O Backslide in EE5
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2012, 03:41:16 pm »
I didn't think he was off to slay everyone. I thought he was just going after Ms. W, who was about to spill the beans.

Cael

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Re: Sicarius Big Moment O Backslide in EE5
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2012, 04:35:16 pm »
Durin the conversation he had with Am and Sespian it sounded like he wanted to kill everyone. Something to the effect of if they got rid of everyone there, they'd get rid of Forge's leadership and the organization couldn't function. That's when Am said it was most likely international and bigger than the plot to kill Sespian.

What surprised me (surprise is a better wit than concern or puzzle hehe) was that even after Am and Sespian appealed to his pragmatic side by mentioning Firge was bigger than Turgonia,  he still slipped off against their express wishes. Only the shield protecting the meeting saved them from Sicarius - Am bringing down the ceiling was a whole nother kettle of fish.

Yeah, now Forge knows the truth, but it was bound to get out some way and Sic had to know it the moment Pike revealed he knew. They're obviously working with practitioners and we've seen communication gems in EE1. Logically, Ms. W, Pike and her assistant were probably not the only ones who knew and could spread the info.
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adamai

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Re: Sicarius Big Moment O Backslide in EE5
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2012, 06:48:35 pm »
I thought he was off to kill everyone too. But it didn't surprise me much, because that is still how he responds to a very serious threat. He is still not willing to risk Sespian's or Amaranthe's life when he thinks he can do something about it, even if it means going against their wishes.

rklonewolf

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Re: Sicarius Big Moment O Backslide in EE5
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2012, 07:38:26 pm »
I was actually hoping he'd go and kill everyone. I , too think he preferred having them hate him and be safe then having his secret out and the threat of them being killed. And we still don't know who all in the Forge group is dead, and who is alive. Sicarius was being practical in his wanting to kill those who wanted to kill the Emperor.
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Cael

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Re: Sicarius Big Moment O Backslide in EE5
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2012, 08:25:42 pm »
Eh, I think it's rash and not very well thought out(on Sic's part - not LB's :P) I keep going to Am's suspicion that Forge is international which is entirely likely. Wiping out 40 people who are involved in the Turgonian branch may set their plans back a bit, but in the long run will probably bring down more fire and brimstone from the larger organization. To sweep in and wipe them all out doesn't seem like the rational move of a man who has conducted himself through a similar (if smaller scale) plot on Sespian's life. Remember that the satrapy governor that Sicarius killed was plotting to have Sespian assassinated as well. Yes, Forge is a larger, more real threat but this unreasoning panic is surprising to me... I would think that since Sespian is in no immediate danger (he is right there with them) that Sic would use one of the Forge people for info to see how far-reaching this whole thing is. If he had to get Am and Sespian upset with him, you'd think he'd do something that would get him some information - like torture. He's not above it, as shown in Encrypted

I suppose he could've panicked again, but I'd REALLY like to get in his head and see why he's doing what he's doing...
« Last Edit: September 12, 2012, 04:52:03 pm by Cael »
Once you've made sure that the signal gets through
There's one final thing that I want you to do
Put me where I'll see stars, so that I can see you
And I'll soar like a leaf on the wind

rklonewolf

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Re: Sicarius Big Moment O Backslide in EE5
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2012, 01:18:12 pm »
About that you are right I suppose. We might learn more in EE6. I hope.
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exstock

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Re: Sicarius Big Moment O Backslide in EE5
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2012, 01:35:37 am »
I can't help but think that one of the things going through Sic's head during the Big Moment O Backslide was, "She forgave me last time."  Remember, Am made it clear during their big heart to heart that his previous kill-all-forge spree didn't make her stop loving him.  That's the kind of thing that would enter into Sic's train of logic.  Rightly or wrongly, he would see her reaction to killing a bunch of Forgers as a known and acceptable quantity.
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Andi

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Re: Sicarius Big Moment O Backslide in EE5
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2012, 11:37:47 am »
I think people generally tend to progress in a two-steps-forward/one-step-back manner.  Faced with what was certainly a rather overwhelming large plot again Sespian, I thought his desire to kill the lot of them fallback was pretty in keeping with the character.  Also, I wish he'd of done it.   Probably wouldn't have completely collapsed Forge, but it would have put a hurting on it.  And it would potentially given Sespian control of the technology. 

I also think he was being nicer than usual about the not-killing thing for part of the time because of her being tortured and having a rough couple weeks.  Ya know, it's good when guys do little things like avoiding cold blooded killing to show their affection. 
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